London vs New York - New York v London - Which City is Better? Is the Comparison Fair?
Codex
Taxis in NY are less expensive, the subway and some MTA buses run 24 hours, if you are interested take a look in the transit forums here, it's all set out there.
Some of the subway stations are dirty.
But I have never ever seen behavior like that on the video. And why would a London Underground transit worker have a pony tail? Wouldn't that be er, dangerous?
The New York subway vs London underground comparison from PROGRESSIVE TIMES BLOG says this:
The resulting effects were noticed. As a New Yorker, I am used to seeing all manner of folks on the subway from stock brokers to janitors. The subway is a facility used by the entire city. However, in all of my London travels, those who shared my Tube rides all seemed to be middle-to-upper class folk getting around the city. While not having any more data than my own observations, the lack of a more varied ridership seemed to make the Tube out to be an urban amenity that was more exclusive than New York’s subways, which seems counter to it being an part of public transit.
Also NY Subway cars are about 2 feet wider, have no dirty cushions, and it takes a lot longer to get to the platform in London (sometimes 5 storeys underground) than it does in New York (1 or 2 storeys down).
The title of this thread ought to be "Why You Should Never Compare New York To London"
London is a f**king s**thole.
Don't believe me?
Read this. Even world famous financial analyst Max Keiser thinks it is.
I'm just a guy who likes good food and coffee, and let me tell you, comparing NY to London is a crime. It goes against the laws of the universe, and I am still wondering how the discussion hasn't caused a big tear in the fabric of the universe to open up and destroy everything.
Well, I would tend to agree that a lot of cities are overlooked: Hong Kong, Tokyo, Sydney, Vancouver, Miami, Berlin. But the press in England want their public to read about London vs New York so that they think that they are up there with the best.
Even when they aren't.
So please, gentlemen, continue debating London vs New York, and I shall write something of substance on the Hong Kong vs New York thread (assuming one exists).
Hoff that incident on the London Underground where the platform supervisor was swearing at the old guy provoked a huge response, if you read the JonathonMacDonald site where he talks about it. It looks like he took the video.
One commenter:
having visited our fair capitals great transport system a few months
back. the only comment i have to say is this. When we transport animals
these days they seem to get better treatment than do we. And coupled
with the fact that when people are abused that everyone seems to just
turn a blind eye can not be a good thing at all. The fact that
'londoners' have decided to put up with this and develop some sort of
attitude that it is normal is just wrong.
Ok, I can understand that there are limitations to space and alike and that the arrogance of some of the people who almost nocked me over and the general distain that people had for everyone else on the platform just seem to be bubbling over with enthusiasm to make things worse. Coupled with the general look of the place, like it had been a some time movie set from escape from Newyork or on mass transit system passing through a urinal, I must admit that it was astounding to me that any visitor from any other country may believe that they are not passing through a what should be a civilized country.
There is a general upsurge in the increasing development of an us and them approach to customer services that seems to be emanating from this vicious circle that we seem to have adopted from some sub culture that has infected our society today. When i worked in customer services, and still do to a certain degree it had and still is and surely always will be that you treat others like you would like to be treated yourself in a similar situation. That and you always held some respect for the person you are dealing with however moronic they appeared to be.
There is a part of me
that would love to say I am shocked, but to be honest I do not believe
that I am. Makes me wonder though what is next. have we really sunk
down to a level where swearing and rude behavior, disrespect for others
no matter what age or gender and just a general contempt for everyone
else has become common place.
The words that there are a time
and a place for everything come to mind and watching this video make me
wonder if some people should be shipped out to somewhere esle to serve
time in another place.
Since I travel allot these days
unfortunately i get to see a good cross section of society in general
in the uk and i hate to say it but things just don't look good. the
melting pot of all the mixed cultures some more arrogant than the
others, some less tolerant, some more forgiving and others just down
right satanic have I fear some days come to the boil and unless
something is done soon then I do fear that our green and pleasant land
will become a living hell for those of us who are left.
I defy
anyone to tell me that having good manors and respect for the people
around you cost anything other than an inconvenience that ultimately
will result in your own happiness, regardless of what culture, race or
religion you are. Does make me wonder though if we have not brought all
of this upon ourselves.
Well, I would tend to agree that a lot of cities are overlooked: Hong Kong, Tokyo, Sydney, Vancouver, Miami, Berlin. But the press in England want their public to read about London vs New York so that they think that they are up there with the best.
Even when they aren't.
So please, gentlemen, continue debating London vs New York, and I shall write something of substance on the Hong Kong vs New York thread (assuming one exists).
-kinioso
That's already been said. Great minds etc.
Another fine example of the future of our country - An Englishman of 2007
I found more... and I am still laughing at the French lady who said that New York is its own country...
So after watching these you can really see some of the differences between SOME people in London and SOME people in the US, but not so much about NY vs London.
From the Times in London
London has a problem with finding good people for business:
It is the same story with employers at every level in the UK. Sir Terry
Leahy,
the chief executive of Tesco, put it bluntly. Too many children have
been
leaving school after 11 or 13 years of compulsory education “without the
basic skills to get on in life and hold down a job”. He said 5m adults
were
functionally illiterate and 17m could not add up properly. “On-the-job
training” cannot act as a “bandage or sticking plaster” for “the failure
of
our education system”.
A CBI survey revealed that literacy and numeracy were not the only
problems.
More than 50% of employers complained that young people were
inarticulate,
unable to communicate concisely, interpret written instructions or
perform
simple mental calculations.
Would employers in NYC, if surveyed, ever say that people would be that bad?
I think not.
From The Guardian Online newspaper comes an article about racism experienced by a non white Londoner on public transport.
And in the contributer comments comes this quote and response
Unfortunately I long ago made up my mind that the 'real' English are the kind of men who abused you on the bus. The fair and tolerant ones are a myth that appear from time to time as simulacra of something that might have been.
cinematizer
I hate to think you're right here but maybe you are. But it's perhaps not the English's fault they are like this. They live in a place called 'Britain' which was a ridiculous construct (akin to Turkey before the fall of the Ottoman Empire), created by an untalented, lazy, cruel elite. To do this they subjugated the native Celts - who had a completely different culture and language - and successfully left Europe to sail the seas and 'discover' lots of lovely new places where they could laugh at the locals, pillage them and shout at them loudly in English. All this has left the Englishman unable to see culturally and linguistically different people as anything more than laughable freaks. The small-mindedness of this attitude is breathtaking and extremely limiting to all England's population.
The English are not tolerant, merely indifferent, at least certainly n the south. The poorer areas of the North, which had some hope at one point, are simply full of white people who are reverting to the standards set by the south, but they are a bit more open with their views, that's all.
I am so dismayed at how little 'Britain' has moved forward. People remain fearful of and hateful to ALL foreign cultures (save of course white South Africans, Australians, US Citizens etc for they are the lovely Anglo-Saxon products of this experiment). This works though, at least politically, as the US gets Britain to tag along in its work at creating more and more enemies and keeps it far away from Europe and Civilisation.
It's a disgusting situation, I am reading the comments. I cannot think of any similar situation in New York in the last 10 years.
How about this one
I can remember going to a Jewish Youth weekend in Brighton when I was
about 18. On the Saturday we all trudged along to Synagogue with a
solitary female police escort. Our route took us passed Brighton
station just as a train load of Millwall fans were leaving to watch the
match. "Seig heil" they shouted with their arms raised in salute.
"They're all going to be gassed!" followed by "Burn the jewish c**ts".
I've never been so scared in my life.
Interesting thread.
What makes NY great? Too many things to mention.
What makes London great? Again, probably too many things to categorize or mention.
Another comment from that article - to those UK people here - tell us - how true is this?
I've lived in New York, London, Aberdeen, Tokyo, and Toronto &,
of course, sh!t happens everywhere, but London is teeming with it. If
you look around, expressed, or barely suppressed fury is a daily
occurrence. Self-righteous, humourless, dysfunctional fury.
I think that just part of the problem, and one that has not been
mentioned yet, is a culture of class-ism, put downs, grand snobbery in
the UK, which damages self-esteem, civic ease, & generates
humiliation, fury, paranoia, chippiness., or something.
From the Gawker response to Stephanie Marsh, commenter "Hooray for me" says
11/26/09
Having lived in both cities I can say that London wins hands-down if:
• You are excited by one new restaurant opening a year – as opposed to four a month
• Your idea of a good cab experience is having some lazy East End Ronnie Kray gangster-wannabe charge you fifty pounds to take you ten miles on a route of his choosing and bore you shitless about traffic and how he did the "knowledge" – as opposed to having multiple hungry taxi drivers aggressively compete for the chance to take you anywhere worthwhile in the city for about ten bucks.. and let you pay with a credit card
• You enjoy listening to some scruffy idiot drone on (without irony) about American consumer society while praising clever British ad agencies
• You’re ok with just "Great Indian food" – as opposed to "Great ________ food" (insert one of over 60 different authentic cuisines)
• You think it makes sense to allocate resources, jobs and recognition based on whether your grandfather was an in-bred upper class twit or you went to some faggot English boarding school – as opposed to merit and ability to do the job or achieve something
• You enjoy some fat Sloaney upper-class twit wannabe giving you attitude when she should be grateful you are talking to her and not punching her in the head – as opposed to meeting and talking to the world’s most beautiful women from all over the globe in every bar and restaurant you visit
• You enjoy some Brit boy ponce fumbling over your shirt buttons with bad breath and teeth in his seedy London flat
• You have ten million pounds and/or earn a million pounds a year so you can live in a decent flat in a nice neighbourhood to make up for all the crap you have to endure – as opposed to having dozens of interesting, reasonably affordable neighbourhoods within 20 minutes of the city
• You think Islington is hip, Camden is groovy and Notting Hill is edgy - as opposed to boring, stupid and a tourist hell
• You believe good urban transport is paying ten bucks to go two miles in a stuffy tubular sardine can - as opposed to two buck fifty to go all over the system in air conditioned space and comfort
• Your idea of fun is to travel an hour from your home north of the river to be trapped at some idiotic dinner party in Clapham - as opposed to hopping to three fabulous parties and events before 11 p.m.
• You think it’s ok to travel four hours out of the city and STILL be surrounded by millions of fucking people - as opposed to travelling for an hour to get to thousands of acres of wilderness or miles of sandy beaches
• You think edgy means dirty – as opposed to new, interesting and challenging
• You believe being able to hop over to Europe makes up for everything else
• You hate live music so you’re OK with four decent music venues in a thirty mile radius – as opposed to fifty in a ten mile radius
• You enjoy people who fight you in pubs, gob on the streets, live in the past, smell like ass, act smarter than they are, think they are funny, suck at sports and generally who you wouldn’t shit on unless they were from London.
I ask you, would this be allowed in New York? Because in London you can get arrested for saying it.
I think that overall there is a difference of culture. In NY an British person is taken as they are, as long as they don't ham it up and try to be better than everyone. In London however, anyone not from the UK (or England) is treated as somewhat of an outsider.
She says the level of anti-Americanism she has experienced "feels like a kind of racism".
"I don't want anyone to feel sorry for Americans, or me, I just want people to realise that we are dealing with hatred too."
Read some of your comments at the bottom of this page.
Typical British pub banter is one thing, says Christian Cox, but the
"pure hatred" she says is directed at her for being American is really
starting to wear her down.
The former model moved to London a year ago, where she is setting up her
own business, and has been surprised at how some people have reacted to
her nationality.
Ms Cox, 29, says she has been called, among other things, "terrorist",
"scum", "low life", and feels that she is constantly being held to
account for the actions of President Bush and for US foreign policy.
This is despite the fact that she doesn't agree with the war in Iraq and
didn't vote for Bush.
American critic
She has travelled widely in other parts of Europe, Mexico, Canada and Australia but says this is the first time her pride in her country has been challenged in such a vitriolic way.
"People would make jokes about Americans but I didn't experience the pure hatred I have had since I came to live here.
"I appreciate that British people often don't understand why I have so much pride, they think it's brainwashing.
"And I do think some people in the US need to be more educated about
what's going on in the world.
"But some people just fly off the handle without even talking to me -
it's as if they had been waiting to run into an American all day to let
their feelings out," she says.
To avoid confrontations she says she lowers her voice on the Underground
and in pubs.
But in one incident an older man asked her directly if she was American.
"When I said yes he said: 'I just want you to know that I think you are
the poorest people I have ever met in my life' - meaning we were
low-life.
"I said I was sorry he felt that way, but that I disagreed."
The man started shouting obscenities at her group. The row developed
into a brawl and Ms Cox suffered a black eye as she tried to pull two
people apart.
"After that I cried for two days, then booked a flight back to the
States. I felt so hated, I needed to be with people who loved me."
Some friends now advise her to tell people she is Canadian, to deflect
potential abuse, an option she calls "sad".
'Culture shock'
However it is advice that teacher Francesca Terry, 28, who grew up in
Seattle, recognises.
She has lived in London for four years and is married with a daughter.
"I was aware before I moved here that when you travelled abroad it was
always better to say you were Canadian if you could get away with it.
But we treated it more like a joke."
She was subjected to verbal abuse in the first year or so in Britain,
but things calmed down particularly when she had her daughter and
stopped going out to pubs so much.
"When I first came here it was part of the culture shock. I felt really
naive, I had thought I would go unnoticed here.
"I would go out and I'd just get picked on by people taking pot shots. I
just didn't speak when we went out. What shocked me was that people
would just say the rudest comments."
But she adds that she has a close group of girlfriends from the US, many
of whom say they have not had similar experiences.
She says she is still cautious when she's out and about: "If people ask
where I'm from I say 'the States, but the part near Canada'."
"I feel bad about saying that, but it is out of a kind of guilt, I just
don't want to get into it with people. When I do, I tell them these are
not my choices. I understand my president makes bad decisions, but
that's not me."
The levels of aggression I have seen manifest themselves in ordinary commuters on trains and buses is unparalleled. I have seen decent-looking guys in suits shove each other and hurl abuse at random people just because of a bump-in at rush hour. I have felt palpable tension on, for example, trains full of amped-up football supporters on their way to a match or boozed-up office workers on a Friday night...
I have had higher levels of sleazy, unwanted male attention in London than I have anywhere else (and I am not referring to innocuous catcalls or "hey girl, where you from" type comments - I mean incidents like a creepy man following me onto a night bus and touching me, or cars rolling down their windows, slowing down and being downright menacing).
I have also never been as uncomfortable around posses of 10- to 14-year-old children as I am in London. Preteens in small packs have done the following and more: verbally harassed me while I've been out running, thrown icy snowballs at my face, chucked chicken bones, water balloons and other objects at me on the street or on buses, made sexual jokes at my expense, yelled at me on public transport simply for standing in their way, and so on. I am not saying that any of these incidents was traumatic, but there is clearly more at play than just kids being kids.
My girlfriend, who is American of East Asian origin, has suffered more racially-charged sexual taunts and mocking remarks in London than she ever has in New York, Berlin or Vienna (all cities where she has lived for continuous lengths of time). It is really, really astounding to witness.
So yeah, what is it about London? Because on the whole, the city has a lot to offer and it has a great mix of people. Why does it seem like bad situations are more likely to spark off here? (And I'm not saying that other cities are perfect - far from it.)